5.xx Updates

[mattgreen]

Hi,

I am just about to dabble into the world of Laser Tag with a few mates!

Just before we get going with making them - I have a few questions!

1) Re-charge - Does the circuit allow me to charge the battery directly, or do I have to add seperate support for that?

2) Updates - Are there any updates due within the near future? If so, whats included? I ask this because I dont want to go ahead and make some and then you bring out a nice new shiny feature that requires a PCB mod!

3) Scores - How does the firmware handle scores at the end of the game? Does each player get told there scores? If so what sort of information do they get? The god gun, does that recive all the scores via infrared? If so, do the players all need to be close to the god gun?

4) Cost - I know this is a difficult (and proably very annoying one!) but we are studens and dont have much money :P We want to keep to a reasonable budget. Can you recommend roughly where to set our budget for the electronics side of it (we know about case and battery, just all the rest of the stuff)

5) The UK - I havnt had a chance to take a proper look yet, but has anyone in the UK managed to get hold of all the parts for the circuit? If so, is it cheaper than buying the pre-made board from lasertagparts.com?
I know this sounds rude - but to me, at a quick glance, it seems steep for the components that are there! I know that the person who puts the effort in has to get his cut - fairs fair! But I just wanted to know, because if its the case of £10 ($20) more to have it made - then thats what i'll do!!

Also - do they post to the UK? If so, is it expensive?


Thanks in advance! You will probably have looked at this and thought - bloody hell, not another one! I hate people that do this too, but I want these questions answered before I buy! And the forum was easier on the developer than sending him an email in my eyes!

Thanks again,

Matt

[timmeh]

1) Re-charge - Does the circuit allow me to charge the battery directly, or do I have to add seperate support for that?
With my guns, the recharge jack actually opens the gun circuit and closes the circuit for battery recharge when the plug is inserted, i beleive this is how most guns recharge functions operate and its pretty simple.
http://www.laserforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2642&highlight=battery


5) The UK - I havnt had a chance to take a proper look yet, but has anyone in the UK managed to get hold of all the parts for the circuit? If so, is it cheaper than buying the pre-made board from lasertagparts.com?
I know this sounds rude - but to me, at a quick glance, it seems steep for the components that are there! I know that the person who puts the effort in has to get his cut - fairs fair! But I just wanted to know, because if its the case of £10 ($20) more to have it made - then thats what i'll do!!
The milestag presoldered circuit also includes the ISD and PIC chip which on there own will cost you over £10, also taking into account the boards have a professional finish and you know there tested and problem free I beleive its a pretty good deal.

[milestag]

1) Re-charge - Does the circuit allow me to charge the battery directly, or do I have to add seperate support for that?

This depends on the recharging jack that you use and how you wire it. I would "recommend" using a key switch with 2 positions. This way the battery is connected to the circuit OR the charging jack. If the charging jack is always live, then a mildly clever person will figure out that they can reset their gun by shorting power temporarily (and possibly damage the battery).

2) Updates - Are there any updates due within the near future? If so, whats included? I ask this because I dont want to go ahead and make some and then you bring out a nice new shiny feature that requires a PCB mod!

Yes, firmware version 5.30 is due VERY soon. Doing final code tweaking at this time. It will work on all 5.XX boards, but the battery monitor only works on RevG and later. Later there will be a new PCB design to support the next generation of sound chips, but future code updates will be backwards compatible. The 5.30 code includes:
- Auto-respawn (programmable delay and # of respawns)
- Precision battery monitor w/ low battery warning
- Score download to Ref Gun
- Revised user interface (based on MilesTag Pro)
- WoW compatible mode
- Support for Electronic Flag Stations (CTF)
- Game Start Delay, Timed Games
- "Death Delay" allows a period of time for medics to reach tagged-out players
- Improvements to cloning functions
- Health values are now 001 to 999
- Cyclic editing now displays actual RPM rate
- More options for Hit Delay
- Programmable timeout for Hit LEDs after tagout
- Player IDs consistent with MilesTag Pro
- Eliminated the need for a dedicated "Config Switch".

No features planned that will require future PCB mods. Though it is possible to mod the older 5XX (pre RevG) systems to enable the battery monitor.


3) Scores - How does the firmware handle scores at the end of the game? Does each player get told there scores? If so what sort of information do they get? The god gun, does that recive all the scores via infrared? If so, do the players all need to be close to the god gun?

At the end of the game, each player can scroll through a list of statistics on their own gun LCD. This will show: the name (handle) of every player that hit you and # of hits by each; name of player and team that landed the last hit; # of rounds you fired; # of respawns; # of times you were tagged out; # of flags collected. For smaller games (10 players or so), we find that this is often enough info even without downloading and printing compiled scores. Everyone looks at their screens and brags about their performance, then on to the next game.

To get the compiled scores, you simply use one tagger configured (boot mode) as a "Ref Gun" (or you can build a dedicated handheld controller using one of the 5.XX boards). Each gun transmits it's scores via infrared to the Ref Gun. Then the Ref Gun is connected to a PC serial port (or USB using an adapter) to log/print the compiled scores. The compiled scores show total hits received and landed for each player, along with total rounds fired, time, accuracy score, respawns, tag outs, flags.

Yes, to ensure a reliable IR transfer the player should be close to the Ref Gun. The Ref Gun will reject data if any errors. Downloads are done one player at a time, so only the player that is downloading needs to be near the Ref Gun.

4) Cost - I know this is a difficult (and proably very annoying one!) but we are studens and dont have much money :P We want to keep to a reasonable budget. Can you recommend roughly where to set our budget for the electronics side of it (we know about case and battery, just all the rest of the stuff)

The best answers will be from others here that have already built their own systems. It really depends on the resources you have available (tools, spare parts, local parts stores). For me to provide full parts lists it's a double-edged sword -- if I do specify part numbers for everything, then some people think those are the ONLY parts they can use; but if I don't provide part numbers for common components, some people don't even know where to start. In my opinion, there is a certain amount of prerequisite electronics knowledge or you may find yourself overwhelmed by the project. I don't want to discourage people, but when I get questions like "please tell me everything I need to make a laser tag gun, and how much it costs" - I probably can't help much. If you build the whole gun for less than $200, then I'd say you saved $800 to $1000 versus a commercial tagger and have MUCH more capabilities than most commercial systems (not to mention the enjoyment/satisfaction of building something yourself).

If your budget is less than $100 per tagger or if you want to start playing less than a month from now - look at LTTO. Don't get the misperception that this is simply a "cheap" or "quick" way to get into laser tag.


5) I know this sounds rude - but to me, at a quick glance, it seems steep for the components that are there! I know that the person who puts the effort in has to get his cut - fairs fair! But I just wanted to know, because if its the case of £10 ($20) more to have it made - then thats what i'll do!!

Of course, the more you can do yourself, the more money you will save. Yes, I have to charge for my time and my labor is going to be expensive. For some people it's still a good deal to buy parts from me as the components are simply not available in their country, or they are outrageously expensive. Some people buy one preassembled unit (as a reference I suppose) and then a set of bare boards and components.

Also - do they post to the UK? If so, is it expensive?

Yes, I ship to UK regularly (UK and Australia are the biggest customers in fact, I think because LT just hasn't caught on in the US yet). Global Priority Mail (no insurance) is around $8.00 to $15.00 USD. Global Express Mail (insured) is around $30.00 USD. Plus any import fees/taxes charged by your customs. I try to stay close to actual shipping costs, so I often refund the unused portion of shipping charges. If it's close either way I don't worry about it too much. If it's a high value order I may insist on using GEM so I can insure it.

[shortleif]

1) Re-charge - Does the circuit allow me to charge the battery directly, or do I have to add seperate support for that?

This depends on the recharging jack that you use and how you wire it. I would "recommend" using a key switch with 2 positions. This way the battery is connected to the circuit OR the charging jack. If the charging jack is always live, then a mildly clever person will figure out that they can reset their gun by shorting power temporarily (and possibly damage the battery).
...

I found an additional reason to do it this way. The charging jack I have is cleverly set up with three contacts. Contact 1 is always connected to the center post, contact 2 is connected to the outer sleeve, and contact 3 is connected to contact 2 if and only if there is no plug in the jack. It's designed to allow the jack to break the power circuit, automatically removing power from the load when the charger is plugged in.

It works fine, except that if the jack is given a sharp tap from the correct direction, it breaks the 2-3 connection momentarily. I've had the tagger suddenly power cycle when someone bumps it into something or sets it down on the table with the normal amout of care a child uses (say, equivalent to dropping it from about a 1 cm / half inch height).

There would be other solutions (perhaps using a large capacitor to keep power going for a short time, as the break in power is easily less than 100 ms). But I'm looking forward to changing the circuit to a key switch, as it's also annoying to have to insert a charging plug to turn off the tagger.

[milestag]

Yeah, I had similar problems. Partly the quality and design of the jacks I think, but not something you want to have happen in the middle of a game.

Next revision of the Tech Reference will show a keyswitch for power and remove the config switch. In the new firmware, you access the editing/cloning menu by powering on while holding the Mode button - rather than using a dedicated switch.

[shortname]

mattgreen,

If you want to build your own boards (or send gerber files to a manufacturer) I have created a copy of the 5.xx PCB in a GNU/Linux program called PCB. Unfortunately, I haven't yet built or tested the board, so I can't tell you whether or not it works, or whether or not the gerber files you could generate from this .pcb file would be correct. If you want to get started quickly or you are not prepared to troubleshoot the PCB, then you should probably just buy a board from lasertagparts. Also: My PCB layout is of the Rev-B board, as I haven't done the Rev-G board.

Good luck with your tagger,
Jeremy

[mattgreen]

Thanks for the response guys - its been very helpfull! With regards to the PCB, I will buy the made PCB from lasertagparts.com I think, just to save some time. I have found most of the components from a local supplier in the UK (Rapid Electronics) - I have all the part numbers in a spreadsheet if anyone would like it.

I just have a few more little questions if you wouldnt mind helping me out?

1) Key Switch - With the changes in key switch, If I have a 2 position switch will that allow me to turn the gun on, and off (charge)?

2) LCD Screen - I am having real trouble finding a LCD screen of the right size, and the one on mouser is out of stock until June/July! Can anyone recommend where I could get one?

3) 5v Low Dropout Regulator - I cant get hold of the LM4941, but I can the LM7805. Will this affect my circuit at all?

4) SIP Resistor - I think I am being a bit stupid here, but I cant seem to find one - what exacly am I looking for?

5) FET, 4-pin DIP - I cant find either of these aswell. Again, I think I may just be doing something stupid? What type of component are they?

6) 200K Ohm 1/8W Resistor - I cant get hold of any 200K Ohm, do I have to have 200K or can it be slightly higher/lower?

7) Self Resetting Fuse - Will this fit the bill? http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?kw=77-2631&tier1=Electrical+%26+Power&tier2=Fuses+%26+Circuit+Breakers&tier3=Resettable+Fuses&tier4=Non-RoHS+Bulk+packed+resettable+fuses&moduleno=76610

8) IR LED - Again, is this going to be the right thing? http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?kw=58-0320&tier1=Electronic+Components&tier2=Optoelectronics&tier3=Optoelectronic+Devices&tier4=5mm+Infrared+source+and+sensor&moduleno=72945

9) Potentiometer, trimmer, 20K Ohm - Last one I promise, Will this do? http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?kw=67-0442&tier1=Electronic+Components&tier2=Resistors+%26+Potentiometer&tier3=Preset+Potentiometers&tier4=6mm+Cermet+trimmer+potentiometers&moduleno=65259

Thanks for your help so far - looking forward to having a milestag system soon!


Cheers,
Matt

[eperezsa]

I will try! :D


Thanks for the response guys - its been very helpfull! With regards to the PCB, I will buy the made PCB from lasertagparts.com I think, just to save some time. I have found most of the components from a local supplier in the UK (Rapid Electronics) - I have all the part numbers in a spreadsheet if anyone would like it.

I just have a few more little questions if you wouldnt mind helping me out?

1) Key Switch - With the changes in key switch, If I have a 2 position switch will that allow me to turn the gun on, and off (charge)?

I have this one put it and work very well. You do not have to fasten and unfasten the power jacks every while.


2) LCD Screen - I am having real trouble finding a LCD screen of the right size, and the one on mouser is out of stock until June/July! Can anyone recommend where I could get one?

Here in Spain, you can still found some. In http://www.amidata.es appears that still have some left. I have ordered a few to cover shortages.


3) 5v Low Dropout Regulator - I cant get hold of the LM4941, but I can the LM7805. Will this affect my circuit at all?

I am using 7805 as you set without problems. The L4941 is not a easy prey. Another thing the "M" in the name is seems that is an errata; the component name is L4941.

I am using a 8.4v as stated in the tech reference. My brother have his initial test with a 7.2v and is doing well.


4) SIP Resistor - I think I am being a bit stupid here, but I cant seem to find one - what exacly am I looking for?

This is a special form or resistor with 6 legs (6-pin, if I remember well) that are really somo resistor in parallel (I'm not electronic, so wait a more precise answer). Looks like a ceramic capacitor with 6-pin in line.


5) FET, 4-pin DIP - I cant find either of these aswell. Again, I think I may just be doing something stupid? What type of component are they?

These are a mistery for my. They are like transistors with "3 legs" but I am not sure what is. I found it after asking in many places.


6) 200K Ohm 1/8W Resistor - I cant get hold of any 200K Ohm, do I have to have 200K or can it be slightly higher/lower?

More advanced electronic people can ask and override me, but any close value can do. But the 200K 1/8w is a common value so might find it easily.


7) Self Resetting Fuse - Will this fit the bill?


Yes, this may work.


8) IR LED - Again, is this going to be the right thing? http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?kw=58-0320&tier1=Electronic+Components&tier2=Optoelectronics&tier3=Optoelectronic+Devices&tier4=5mm+Infrared+source+and+sensor&moduleno=72945


Ok, I can't speak here. Wait another advice.


9) Potentiometer, trimmer, 20K Ohm - Last one I promise, Will this do?

No this one is not for you.

Ask for the 3-pin encasing with the pins "in-line". There are another that have the pins in a triangular shape ... you can put it, but the PCB is designed for the 3-pin "in-line".

In the photos of the PCB mounted from www.lasertagparts.com there are to the right in the low corner a blue (sea blue :) ) box form with a small golden screw in top. On the left, at the upper part of the PCB you can see the other.


Thanks for your help so far - looking forward to having a milestag system soon!

Naa, this is a fast and rapid answer. Wait for the proffesional.

PS: sorry about my english in this loooong post. :D

Bye

[mattgreen]

Thanks for a great response!

I will review things and i'm sure I will post some more questions soon! :P