TO BE or NOT TO BE?

[Kitty]

It has come to my attention of late that new-comers to laserskirmish, affectionately known as Noobs, have worn the brunt of criticism wherever a mission of some degree of complexity has failed. I, for one, admit my guilt on an occassion.

Yet I think it is inexcusable that regular & experienced players blame noobs when they, themselves, have everything to guide their less experienced team mates to success.

What happened to mate-ship? Imagine how it could have been in WW1 if the Aussies' did not posess their sense of self preservation & pride if they did not help out their mates under extreme duress.

With good old fashioned common courtesy, patience, know-how coupled with some practical experience and wallah! Presto! No miricle or overnight success. But a laserskirmish solider equipped for a battle that will at least ensure a higher morale on both parts.

I challenge every L/S player to lead the noobs by good example i.e. using gentle persausian while ensuring that they are still having fun!
As they say," your chain is only as strong as your weakest link".

He who wants to teach, must know how to be a student
He who wants to grow, must help others to grow.
Or,
NOT.

[Trapper]

I have been involved with tag now for more then 2 years now. I can tell you from my own personal experience that the level of the team determins if you win or lose. As your own post says the chain is only as strong as the weakest link. The weakest link is Noob Players. To relate it back to last sunday (since its the freshst in my mind) That mission had almost all experienced players on one team compared to the other team with one experienced player (who had really only just started back that week even though he had played now and then before hand) and a team of noobs who had played for the first time that day. Altho the church was defended against us we had to compete with people on 2 flanks and got wiped out giveing time for the seal team to get into the church. When starting the second part of the mission I laid out direct orders and objectives for my team. no debateing and told them that if they screwed up i would shoot them myself. None of this gentle persuasion crap. We won that segment with plenty of respawns left, the fact that your team was wiped out was a bonus as i only had 3 targets set. Zeeva Plan and the flag bearer. The experienced players should take control of noob players and direct them where to go and what to do not coddle them. Its not a committee after all.

This post is of coarse from the member of the team who lost operation bribie the week before and blamed it on noobs.

[Rommel]

N00bs and Experienced players are at 2 different levels and therefore there should be different sessions for the 2 different levels.

[Snowman]

While the experience of a player can have effects on conflicts,
my experience with 'noobs' in open sessions has shown that they
become too impatient (generally speaking of course) and don't
concern themselves with the mission objectives and just want to
shoot people. That is why noobs cost missions. However a good
leader should prepare for such circumstances.

[Lateo]

Define a NOOB for me please? Qurik is a NOOB arewe saying he crap in fact with
exception of 4 players my enitre clan is all NOOBS.

However as i m sure Bragg will back me up with, i have been knocked down to 1 hit point before i have even got to the enemy because of noobs not keeping fingers of triggers.

I think the name noob is a misleading term it doesnt refer so much to the amount of time a player has played but more his attitude towrads more complex missions

[Rommel]

I would define a N00b as somebody who isn't skilled at the sport and hasn't got enough experience to be effective on the battlefield.

[Lateo]

So you mean AJ?

Effective against who?

where is the bar?

[Rommel]

I'm not sure if AJ is a n00b. You might have to ask him.

Effective as a player. In other words are they good on the battlefield, do they cause damage to the enemy, do they follow orders, do they know how to play etc.

A bar? there is no bar, but I wish there was one because I reckon it would be cool to have a few drinks after playing. LOL

There is no bar because some people have better playing skills than others.

[Lateo]

This is my point, effective against who.

Against the boondockers almost anyone is effective but once u go up against better clans then it gets harder.

Noobs to be taught u talk about experince to fight well how do get that experince unless ur playing against these people, the only way to get better is to continue playing against better players.

Take easy comapny for example, less than a few weeks ago when they started and they were getting hamered now theyare compative players, whats more they are not individual players.

LS is full of good individaul players but its teams of players that do well, i d rather have 6 players used to playing togther that are ok than having 2 outstanding indivduals.

[Rommel]

Who is Easy Company? I know who they are in history but I don't know who they are at LS.

[Lateo]

wow u r self absorbed, they have played reguarly for several weeks and pretty good too.

[Yea-man!]

Hello all. I'm not usually that talkative but the seemingly continuous blah blah about "experienced" and not "experieneced" players gets me down. I have thouroughly enjoyed playing against and with more experienced players, most of whom have been welcoming and accomodating while I find my feet. (and learn how to shoot straight!!!). However, it seems that being an experienced player doesn't always equate to being an experienced leader. As far as I've learnt in activities other than but relative to L/S, a good leader both protects and encourages the other members of his or her team, so that the team ends up the better for it. If a "noob" doesn't respond to a command or suggestion, it is more likely that he or she doesn't know how to do the action, not just doesn't want to. Instead of getting angry at them not responding or not being at "your level", show them how and why. I know this is leaning towards the feel good, Oprah way of doing things, however, it works, and in the end, more "experienced" players are looking for something that works and acheives the mission goals. I learnt this first hand on Sunday, when put in charge of the Muslim assaulters in the open session. Going in I wasn't thinking we were going to win, thats not the important part. The fact that we ATTEMPTED it ( and may I say got damn close before even being discovered!!) counted. See
ya out there, Yeah-man. :cool:

[Kitty]

Thanks for your contribution. Let it be known that I did not have any particular person(s) in mind when I wrote this post, I simply wanted to steer away from the gender issue (for the while).

TRAPPER: In response to your reply.
"the gentle persausion crap" as you so elegantly put it, is referring to an excellent leadership skill; 'influence by reason'.
Your choice of operation may be effective for the mission or even the session without complaint but look at the bigger picture.
FACT 1: This is Laserskirmish not a division of the Australian Defence Force.
FACT 2: This is a family operated business for the whole family experience.
FACT 3: Paying customers have the right to receive quality service.
FACT 4: Paying customers pay our wage.

Like I had ALREADY admitted in the original post, I had a 'spit' about noobs out of pure frustration but-
1. I have had time to reflect & retract from my 'old' way of thinking and,
2. If you choose to dis me in public, make sure you at least tell the WHOLE story, like how I also took responsibility for my part in the Bribie mission as 2nd in command to A.J.

Now Trapper I can't even bitch-slap you because I reckon you would enjoy it way too much. Lateo where's that belt?:p

[Kitty]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lateo

Noobs to be taught u talk about experince to fight well how do get that experince unless ur playing against these people, the only way to get better is to continue playing against better players.
Take easy comapny for example, less than a few weeks ago when they started and they were getting hamered now theyare compative players, whats more they are not individual players.
__________________________________________________ __

Thankyou Lateo, an excellent illustration of what noobs are capable of with an earnest attitude and a willing leader/ comrade.

[leggz]

As a noob I found with my first experience it was very disorganised. I would have taken orders and done as I was told if I had been given orders, but we didn't even have an appointed commander. Pretty much we got annilenated that particular day. The other team had a very experienced L/S commander whom helped his team of noobs to succession.

All I could do was follow my natural instincts and not get shot.
My expectations as a paying customer was to experience more team work, with more help than just the mission outlay.

So as a noob I think there should be an experienced player to guide/direct them.

[Rommel]

I think I might stay out of this one because I might step on to many toes.

[Kitty]

Rommel, as I am sure you are aware, these posts are up for discussion for everybody (as long as you abide by the forum rules- especially no' 2) so pls express your opinion. Of course, not everyone thinks the same or has the same experiences... besides,
You know I love 'forum' controversy :D

[AJ]

hey hey, well then i am a bit late in on the talk but i think that n00bs come and go some stay, the ones that stay turn out to be either one of two types of player, for the sake of making this easier i will spilt them in two catagories as i said above.

Catagory one: Hardcore/Skilled & Pumped
~ These players are the ones that often take charge, often display high levels of skill and stay alive and often come out of battle victorious, the ones that get respect and are confident.

Catagory two: Passionate & Pumped/malskilled
These enjoy laserskirmish just as much as cat1 but unfortunately don't posses as much skill on the battlefield and as such often end up being the commanded and find themselves loosing more than winning but always learning, sometime these cross over to cat1 after a lot of games.

And of course there can be lingoers who mix between the two at different times.